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Even if we don’t write them down, we all make lists (if only mentally). Back in June 2017, rock journalist Bill Wyman boldly committed his ranking of every Beatles canon recording from worst to best. It was a move certain to stir the pot of debate, and so it did. On this show, we discussed not only his list, but also the role of the rock critic – the role of radio in shaping tastes, and how it’s evolved – and how we as fans quantify Beatle music.The Sirius XM list as selected by fans is here.
Anyone wondering whether Wyman was actually being serious when he made his rankings need consider only this: Out of 213 songs, he places Let It Be’s “Maggie Mae” at #94.
Yeah, apparently Maggie Mae has far more merit than She’s Leaving Home for example. 204 was the ranking for She’s Leaving Home…a song that Ian McDonald ranked as one of the high points in the Sgt Peppers album.
Apparently Maggie Mae, a song they would have given about 5 minutes attention to, was more deserving of a high place than a song they put weeks of work into. The vocal harmonies on She’s Leaving Home is enough to eclipse nearly any other song in the Beatles catalogue, but according to Wyman it is a trash song. It is the “nadir” of Sgt Peppers according to him. I am like you, wondering if he is serious or just having a laugh to be controversial.
I like lists & comparisons of songs, but I have to say that the lack of love for anything from Beatles for Sale is startling. The highest rated song was Eight Days a Week – at 80. “The only good song” on the album according to Wyman. He gave a rating of 108 and 119 for the great rock n roll covers Rock n Roll Music and Kansas City. For me, BFS is an album I like to go back to as it is the album they made AFTER they did their first proper tour of the USA.
The album cover has a bleak autumn setting, but inside the gate cover are the uplifting images of the American conquering Beatles. The songs mirror this, with the bleak I’m A Loser contrasting with the sunny optimistic US conquering pop of Eight Days A Week. I’ll Follow the Sun is a melody that captivates,& I love the heavy, deep harmonies between Paul & John on Words of Love. This album has been consistently written off as a great album, the critics have got it wrong. Every Little Thing- pop perfection with a timpani & What Your Doing – a gem.
In terms of the greatest songs overall- for me the list has to include the laughing, giggling And Your Bird Can Sing off Beatles Anthology. That sums up the best of what John and Paul brought together- a lot of laughs & plenty of smiles. It also has to include the song with the most poignant lyric – “Once there was a way to get back homeward” Golden Slumbers. This lyrics encompass all the sadness of McCartney acknowledging the break-up of this exceptional group.
The others in the top 10 can alternate- could it be Tomorrow Never Knows, Blackbird, A Day in the Life, Hey Jude etc….all of those have a right to be in the top 10, but And Your Bird Can Sing and Golden Slumbers for me are permanently in the top 10 list.
Interesting episode and conversation.
But agreed with Robert above. “for sale” is by far
the most underrated Beatles-lp and if one wants
to be opinionated and different and fresh one should give that a chance.
The songwriting are not in any way subpar Beatles-standard.
In fact taken as a whole it is much more mature, darker and progressive than most
of “Help!”. As an album what with the folk-influences and melancholy its almost “Rubber soul” part 1.
And the covers are indeed mostly stellar, only second to “With the Beatles” in that departement.
I agree with Bill that what you rather most listen to isn’t always the best per se.
But thinking of how many times I rather return to “For sale” than some of the more famous albums
can’t mean its ALL that bad? But hey everyones different. For my money the most uneven, overrated and lazily always celebrated album is easily “Abbey road”. I Hardy ever put that on as a whole even though its tops are very high indeed. Talking of overrated and worst Beatles-songs, I did once make a list of my 25 least fav Beatle-tracks and “Abbey road” was heavily featured. Some of the more controversial choices on that list are probably stuff like “Sgt pepper” (the song), “come together”, “can’t buy me Love” and “get back” but I still stand by it. Top 3? “maxwell”, “run for your life”, “another Girl”.
Looking at Bills list again now and realizing why I don’t think ever read it in full in the first place. He’s got some of my very favorites WAY WAY down, case in point “I’ll be back” and “not a second time”, stuff I never tire of. Funny really. Ah well for what it worth heres my 25 LEAST favorite songs, the full list but without the comments is too much text for a “comment” 😉 I’d Love to see other peoples, in a way, way more interesting than best songs. I didn’t include anthology in the mix, just the original stuff. Also I realize now I probably didn’t think of “Maggie mae” or “dig it” as proper songs either but then again I don’t really mind them. 1) Maxwell 2) another Girl 3) run for your life 4) Sgt pepper 5 & 6) Mustard & Pam 7) what goes on 8) the night before 9) honey don’t 10) a taste of honey 11) one after 909 (let it be-version that is) 12) happy to dance 13) for you blue 14) Flying 15) octopus’s garden 16) Anna 17) chains 18) your mother 19) i wanna be your man 20) come together 21) get back 22) can’t buy me Love 23) matchbox 24) little child 25) lovely rita and bonus 26) Love me do. I don’t HATE these apart from maybe the top 3 but I just like them less ?
Robert I’ve listened to every podcast and thoroughly enjoy eac one. Not sure what’s happened recently but the sound quality has turned for the worst. Specifically it sounds as if you need to be using a pop filter in your microphone. The plosives are really coming through and get very distracting from what otherwise is a great podcast
Hi Fran,
Yes, there was a brief in-between run of shows where due to circumstances, I taped minus the pop screen. But it’s back and will be going forward!
Curious to know what version of “Walrus” you used. Heard some things I had never heard before.
Sounds like it’s in stereo from start to finish, which I’ve never heard before. A Giles Martin remix? And where can it be found?
Sorry, I’m listening to this in real time. All the songs you played are slightly different from what I’m used to. Exciting! Can you please source them?
Distinctly heard a cow on “When I Get Home.” ?>?>?>###?!!?!?
I think the concept of having songs by The Beatles ranked from 150-and below a bit distasteful. I get the concept of a top 100 song list by The Beatles, but ranking the worst songs was unpleasant to read through. There is a fine line for a “critic” & just being critical for the sake of it.
This writer ranks songs such as Baby’s In Black at 188. There is great footage of them doing this song from Shea Stadium & reveling in the tune & for the middle-eight alone it is a great song…& then he states Misery is “a forgettable song”. I disagree with such throwaway glib appraisals.
Basically, there are only about a handful of songs I would skip listening to – Revolution 9, Only a Northern Song & Maxwell’s Silver Hammer probably being the only ones that spring to mind….so to rank “poor” songs seems a bit bizarre considering almost the whole catalogue is extremely enjoyable. BTW Good Day Sunshine is highly enjoyable no matter what this writer states.
I find it hard to excited about these list exercises. Probably because I’ve got my list, don’t care what someone else wants to list; they can list whatever they want. But mainly, it’s such an arbitrary and subjective process: I see a number of suggestions above considered ‘good ones’, which I do not like. And conversely, I see other suggested ‘bad ones’ that I like a lot (lol, ESP Mustard/Pam by [Peter])
So what’s the point?
I dunno, I guess people enjoy doing the list thing, but I usually skip it.
I should have mentioned, in my earlier post: even if I’m not much interested in list-making per se, I enjoyed the podcast and interview *very* much. 🙂
Ha ha! Funny ending with that other Bill Wyman.
Nice discussion. I liked hearing the reasoning and thoughts and feelings behind decisions made. Nobody’s list will ever be the same list.
Hi – I really enjoyed the discussion in this episode, and hearing the different points of view. The rankings of the songs were almost irrelevant for me, because the songs of the Beatles are woven throughout the tapestry of my life. I found myself agreeing frequently with Robert. Songs like Let it Be or Hey Jude, for example, I like more or less depending on the day, but I couldn’t rank them, because they are part of my life. Thanks for another great podcast with interesting conversation and Beatles songs.
As an aside, I found the discussion about popism in criticism diverting because it immediately reflected something I had been thinking about in relation to the judging of contestants in the Voice Australia.
Boy George gives contestants thoughtful, constructive criticism/opinions about performances. Each time he does do, the two female judges round on him for being negative. I am of the opinion that the practice of praising kids to raise their self esteem has permeated the culture so that only positive comments about anything are acceptable. This may be a prompt for the hideously offensive criticisms that appear on Twitter etc.
An interesting and thoughtful episode
I agree with you about Let it Be
Okay. Not only I disagree with many of this guy’s ratings of Beatles songs, but here he is saying REM’s “Up” sucks. Comparing it to anything the Beatles put out is stupid and missing the point completely, but it’s a great record – and I’m not on a payroll, REMinc isn’t behind my back, I genuinely think that.Here he is talking about common things rock critics write, but to say “REM hasn’t had a great album since whatever it was called the one with “Nightswmming” on it” is a complete music critic cliché too, and not far off the phenomenon he’s describing with REM (Bowie also had the same thing : “his best album since “Scary Monsters”. He would even joke about it in interviews).
Great interview with Peter Jackson, thank you!
My question is if there is no extended cut, as Disney does not think extended cuts sell, there are rumors of an 18 hour director cut. How will that become available? If Disney owns all of the film and rights, will Apple be able to sell this?
Fascinating conversation here, and great to hear the some of the reasoning behind Jackson’s editorial decisions. In respect of the “alcohol” intake, I think Sulpy didn’t always appreciate the use of the word “pissed”; as Englishmen, the Beatles would say “pissed” meaning drunk, but if they said “pissed off”, that would be more in line with the American meaning of “pissed” ie I’m angry. Paul (on day 2) is drinking Pale Ale whilst going through All Things Must Pass and he looks like the booze is sending him to sleep !! I am a little confused regarding the point at which George left. I always thought all 4 Beatles went off to lunch together, and, upon their return, George left at that point. It’s interesting the way Lennon reacts to George’s departure; he’s almost defiant about it, almost like a “so what if he’s gone, we’ll survive without him” !! Peter Jackson did say that his first cut he completed was 18 hours long but subsequently he edited down to the final cut of under 8 hours. Personally, I’d love to see the 18 hour cut !.
Fascinating conversation here, and great to hear the some of the reasoning behind Jackson’s editorial decisions. In respect of the “alcohol” intake, I think Sulpy didn’t always appreciate the use of the word “pissed”; as Englishmen, the Beatles would say “pissed” meaning drunk, but if they said “pissed off”, that would be more in line with the American meaning of “pissed” ie I’m angry. I am a little confused regarding the point at which George left. I always thought all 4 Beatles went off to lunch together, and, upon their return, George left at that point. It’s interesting the way Lennon reacts to George’s departure; he’s almost defiant about it, almost like a “so what if he’s gone, we’ll survive without him” !! Peter Jackson did say that his first cut he completed was 18 hours long but subsequently he edited down to the final cut of under 8 hours. Personally, I’d love to see the 18 hour cut !.
I have now watched all 3 episodes of Get Back twice! The second time going slowly and makng notes. This is the best music documentary I have ever seen! The fact that its the BEATLES , makes it that but the way we get to watch their creative process is a fantasy come true for me. Just incredible. Thank you Peter Jackson for giving us the privilege! And thanks the Michael Lindsay-Hogg and his crew for the incredible footage kept in storage all these years. Love SATB! Great interview I will be listening for more.
Hi, I am loving the Peter Jackson interviews and loved the documentary.
Yes, I would enjoy an extended version.
Did anyone catch the “typo” in episode one?
When the doc opened with a retrospective of the Beatles’ career. It mentioned Ringo joining the band and then Brian Epstein came on board.
My understanding was that Brian joined the fray while Pete Best was still the drummer. In fact, I believe it was Brian who had to actually fire Pete.
A minor point but, hey.
Robert mentioned that Lennon re-sang his vocal for Don’t Let Me Down. So, the title card in the film that that version was the single version was actually a bit wrong.
However, Lewisohn has no record of Lennon going in and redoing his vocal. In fact, as explained on some website, his vocal was improved by bringing in some vocal bits from other takes (probably from the same day).
Paul didn’t like the way the Get Back single was sounding. So he went in and changed that with Glynn Johns on April 7 at Olympic Sound Studios. At the same time, they remixed the Don’t Let Me Down. I imagine Paul and Glynn did the remix of Don’t Let Me Down together. If you listen to the separated vocals, yes, there is some double tracking and Lennon does scream over himself too.
And it may actually be Paul who sings that extended “Heeee-eeee” thing instead of “Don’t Let Me Down” in the last chorus (before the Billy solo ending). If you listen to the separated audio (band camp), it isn’t exactly clear who is singing that.
So if Robert did say Lennon re-sang it, he needs to be corrected as well. If I’m misremembering this, apologies.