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Luther Russell and I roll into the next hour of discussion and analysis of the intent behind Double Fantasy; about Yoko’s standing in the rock world, and how The Beatles might better have dealt with her entry into their world. The album is ripe for a fresh listen, and no matter how you may rank it in the canon, is certainly worthy of an extended discussion as a release so heavy with meaning.
These were both very good episodes. And thought-provoking. As a long time Beatles fan, I’ve always appreciated the talent of Yoko. She definitely is an artist with a vision. And I’m not denying the fact that she was a powerful influence on Lennon. But at the end of the day, what fails for me on double fantasy is I don’t like, listening to her voice. She is not a good vocalist. And I do not choose to go back and continue to listen to her voice over and over again it is frustrating. every once in a while it’s fine for a few songs. Walking on thin ice is fantastic! We are all water is another fantastic song. But again her vocals fail. The other thing about double fantasy that never sat well and has not aged well is the production. It is so slick and soulless. It just seems like a lost opportunity to go from the great gritty New York funk production of walls and Bridges to a very 80s slick commercial pop production. I prefer taking the songs that he sang off of double fantasy and milk and honey and creating one album of just his material and his vocals. I’m not denigrating Yoko as a talent or as a visionary. What I am denigrating though is her vocal prowess.
Really interesting episodes. It’s unusual to wholeheartedly agree and vehemently disagree with what you hear in the same episode. John certainly has been vindicated, not only for for his championing/defending of Yoko as an artist throughout their time together, but also for his determination in 1980 to write and speak about the realities of his life at that point as a 40 year-old, and be good-humoured about his and Yoko’s privileged position in life — their 1st world problems, in modern parlance. His peers certainly weren’t discussing or writing about that aspect of their lives at that time. I agree Yoko has been very unfairly seared by critics and the public for her mere existing, let alone for demanding her own voice in the world, however, with Double Fantasy, she was just in the wrong game. Rock/pop music doesn’t seem to me to be one of her strengths. The Double Fantasy experience feels inauthentic. I don’t hear any musical or lyrical substance in there from her at all. i’m rooting for her all the way in the context of The Beatles’ story, but to me, there’s just nothing about, say, I’m Your Angel that’s in any way interesting – lyrically, musically, and perhaps the key area in Yoko’s case, conceptually. Thanks for what was a really enjoyable listen.
Hi There
I’m a long time listener,Firtst time caller ☺️
Great two parter on a subject that gets overlooked. Just wanted to say that the decades old myth of John using his “58” Rickenbacker 325 on WOTI is just that. Earl Slick confirmed this a few years back at Winter NAMM in LA. John used his then Brand new Candy Apple Red Stratocaster on this track.
Keep up the great work
Another rich chapter in the SATB epic — thanks for showing me how they were hiding their truth in plain sight — hearing the album again, it almost sounds more like a divorce play. Yeah, Angry Yoko, brutal, cold and angry. I found her tracks awesome and bold.
I agree with the idea that John was at heart honest, but he clearly was a dreamer who put put art and myth as a value higher than literal truth, so every song or statement can’t ever be taken as a mirror of things. Also, who can deny that he and Yoko were not also cunning pr masters and knew how to bs when needed about anything to promote something they loved? But just wait a bit and John would be confessing his bs.
Its so tangled. What honesty even mean, what it means in art, how honesty and truth can be different, how we might not know anything about our own lives … its too much too untangle and probably we can’t ever get to the bottom.
Another awesome double podcast, thanks you guys!! Rock on!
Another rich chapter in the SATB epic — thanks for showing me how they were hiding their truth in plain sight — hearing the album again, it almost sounds more like a divorce play. Yeah, Angry Yoko, brutal, cold and angry. I found her tracks awesome and bold.
I agree with the idea that John was at heart honest, but he clearly was a dreamer who put put art and myth as a value higher than literal truth, so every song or statement can’t ever be taken as a mirror of things. Also, who can deny that he and Yoko were not also cunning pr masters and knew how to bs when needed about anything to promote something they loved? But just wait a bit and John would be confessing his bs.
Its so tangled. What honesty even mean, what it means in art, how honesty and truth can be different, how we might not know anything about our own lives … its too much too untangle and probably we can’t ever get to the bottom.
Another awesome double podcast, thanks you guys!! Rock on!
Thank you Robert for another great talk. I cringe a bit with some of Luther’s lavish praise for Yoko’s singing,
but to each his own. For me time has not aged her singing well.
I think a Episode on “the john that never was” – a speculation on what might have happened to a mid 1980’s John – would be interesting.
Would they have separated again? Was DF all a performance (as you alluded to) to compete with the Mccartney marriage?
We know john was deep into coke and unfiltered French cigarettes, and Yoko relapsed into Heroin again by her own admission.
By many accounts John had suspicions that yoko was replacing him – for what would eventually be yoko’s new man, a ‘john lookalike’ into the 90’s.
And look at the pictures of john in his last days, he was unbelievably thin. That diet and the drugs were not doing him any favors,
let’s not forget Yoko’s Astrologers who were telling john to randomly fly all over the world.
At some point you would hope that john would of had enough of the nonsense and perhaps join George in the Travelling wilburys.
Thank you Robert for another great talk. I cringe a bit with some of Luther’s lavish praise for Yoko’s singing,
but to each his own. For me time has not aged her singing well.
I think a Episode on “the john that never was” – a speculation on what might have happened to a mid 1980’s John – would be interesting.
Would they have separated again? Was DF all a performance (as you alluded to) to compete with the Mccartney marriage?
We know john was deep into coke and unfiltered French cigarettes, and Yoko relapsed into Heroin again by her own admission.
By many accounts John had suspicions that yoko was replacing him – for what would eventually be yoko’s new man, a ‘john lookalike’ into the 90’s.
And look at the pictures of john in his last days, he was unbelievably thin. That diet and the drugs were not doing him any favors,
let’s not forget Yoko’s Astrologers who were telling john to randomly fly all over the world.
At some point you would hope that john would of had enough of the nonsense and perhaps join George in the Travelling wilburys.
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Thoughtful episode but too much rambling at a certain point.
Lennon still being worshipped and forgiven for his insecurities
and then praised as a genius and leadership. Many contradictions
in the host and guest.
Many people blame Yoko Ono for her Astrology but they don’t
have an issue with then President Ronald Reagan following Nancy Reagan’s
Astrological decisions. Double standards by design.
Thoughtful episode but too much rambling at a certain point.
Lennon still being worshipped and forgiven for his insecurities
and then praised as a genius and leadership. Many contradictions
in the host and guest.
Many people blame Yoko Ono for her Astrology but they don’t
have an issue with then President Ronald Reagan following Nancy Reagan’s
Astrological decisions. Double standards by design.