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So an idea came up: who would SATB like to talk to in Beatle world and sit down for an interview? Qualifications: first, they have to be among the living (as of this taping); Second, they have to be completely honest and not fall back on deflection or “professional Beatle fan” chatter: stories they’ve entertained with for years that may or may not be factually accurate. Last, they have to be people on the inside who have either not told their stories at all or not told them to death.
Though mortality hangs over us all, there are still folks out there who, to the best of my knowledge, range to speaking on record only sparingly or not at all; have written books, but if we discussed them here, it’s because their books didn’t go deep enough or raised more questions.)
Joining in the conversation is a returning guest (182 and 188), retired academic Gary Wenstrup. He came up with his list, I came up with mine, and together we covered as much ground as we could in this, the first of a two-parter (at least).
Everything I hear about Yoko in 1980 and in those years prior from 1975 on makes my skin crawl.
I think there is so much myth in that John&Yoko narrative that it is impossible to no see a lot of Lennon’s actions as phony. I must say that I consider Lennon to be my favorite musician of the entire RnR era certainly my favorite songwriter but his personality was very flawed and neurotic in the extreme in my opinion. Perhaps Yoko had her claws so tightly on John’s money that he felt he had to perserve that myth.. In my opinion had he not be murdered they would not be married if he was alive today…perhaps I am overstepping my assumptions but that is what I feel. In that “Yesterday” film, when the old 78 year old Lennon is located there is certainly no YOKO around…different fantady of no Beatles of course but you get the idea! Thanks!
Everything I hear about Yoko in 1980 and in those years prior from 1975 on makes my skin crawl.
I think there is so much myth in that John&Yoko narrative that it is impossible to no see a lot of Lennon’s actions as phony. I must say that I consider Lennon to be my favorite musician of the entire RnR era certainly my favorite songwriter but his personality was very flawed and neurotic in the extreme in my opinion. Perhaps Yoko had her claws so tightly on John’s money that he felt he had to perserve that myth.. In my opinion had he not be murdered they would not be married if he was alive today…perhaps I am overstepping my assumptions but that is what I feel. In that “Yesterday” film, when the old 78 year old Lennon is located there is certainly no YOKO around…different fantady of no Beatles of course but you get the idea! Thanks!
I think it’s easy for many Beatle fans and scholars to dismiss Yoko Ono unlike Linda Eastman because Ono is of Japanese descent and very much an individual who was as headstrong as her husband John Lennon.
Many of the topics brought up in this episode are extremely personal and shouldn’t really be anyone’s business. I thought we would be listening to a pod cast about music related topics and not about Jane Asher’s family. Nothing is gained by inquiring about someone’s personal relationship that happened over 50 years ago. These people want to live their lives. You guys treat it as if someone’s personal privacy was up for grabs and speak about it in such manner.
I was disappointed with some of your cruel and apathetic remarks concerning some folks who have passed on and how you address personal relationships.
Would have preferred to listen to stories about technical aspects of Beatle recordings.
You are entitled to your opinion, WC, and I would never tell you that you’re not. But we don’t need to agree about this, and I feel like I am pretty solid ground in saying that anything of a personal nature that can shed light on a public persona is fair game, so long as it used responsibly and not merely for titillation. What we scholars seek is insight and understanding: no artist creates in a vacuum and to the extent that their environment and personal relationships impact their direction and end results, it is ground to be explored. I made the point at least once that I wasn’t interested in salacious stories and who slept with who; I was interested in the Asher family’s mentoring of Paul. Sure it’s personal to those involved, but I would think that the very cultured and worldly Ashers would recognize that they possessed unique insight into the development of one of the most important artists of the 20th century; this isn’t frivolous tabloid stuff. Just as historians have explored the psychological conditions of former presidents, or the drug habits of famous writers, or the financial situations of famous inventors, etc, there is plenty of legitimate grounds to explore what we can. For any particular Beatles insiders to maintain a vow of silence is as big a disservice to history as past peripheral figures in the lives of historic people burning letters or personal papers.
I am not sure what you are calling “cruel and apathetic remarks” – care to explain?
Last: I call BS on your inferring that anyone who dismisses Yoko is racist. That’s like saying anyone who criticizes Allen Klein is anti-semitic. Being a member of any group – religious, ethnic, or otherwise – should not be cause in itself for abuse, but at the same time it should not be a shield. The fact is that true enough, some people demonized her for her ethnicity, but plenty of people don’t. This shouldn’t be cause to dismiss the myriad legitimate reasons to recognize that, country of origin aside, then as now there were those (starting with at least two other Beatles) who saw her presence and input as disruptive and destructive; ethnicity doesn’t enter into it.
I think it’s easy for many Beatle fans and scholars to dismiss Yoko Ono unlike Linda Eastman because Ono is of Japanese descent and very much an individual who was as headstrong as her husband John Lennon.
Many of the topics brought up in this episode are extremely personal and shouldn’t really be anyone’s business. I thought we would be listening to a pod cast about music related topics and not about Jane Asher’s family. Nothing is gained by inquiring about someone’s personal relationship that happened over 50 years ago. These people want to live their lives. You guys treat it as if someone’s personal privacy was up for grabs and speak about it in such manner.
I was disappointed with some of your cruel and apathetic remarks concerning some folks who have passed on and how you address personal relationships.
Would have preferred to listen to stories about technical aspects of Beatle recordings.
You are entitled to your opinion, WC, and I would never tell you that you’re not. But we don’t need to agree about this, and I feel like I am pretty solid ground in saying that anything of a personal nature that can shed light on a public persona is fair game, so long as it used responsibly and not merely for titillation. What we scholars seek is insight and understanding: no artist creates in a vacuum and to the extent that their environment and personal relationships impact their direction and end results, it is ground to be explored. I made the point at least once that I wasn’t interested in salacious stories and who slept with who; I was interested in the Asher family’s mentoring of Paul. Sure it’s personal to those involved, but I would think that the very cultured and worldly Ashers would recognize that they possessed unique insight into the development of one of the most important artists of the 20th century; this isn’t frivolous tabloid stuff. Just as historians have explored the psychological conditions of former presidents, or the drug habits of famous writers, or the financial situations of famous inventors, etc, there is plenty of legitimate grounds to explore what we can. For any particular Beatles insiders to maintain a vow of silence is as big a disservice to history as past peripheral figures in the lives of historic people burning letters or personal papers.
I am not sure what you are calling “cruel and apathetic remarks” – care to explain?
Last: I call BS on your inferring that anyone who dismisses Yoko is racist. That’s like saying anyone who criticizes Allen Klein is anti-semitic. Being a member of any group – religious, ethnic, or otherwise – should not be cause in itself for abuse, but at the same time it should not be a shield. The fact is that true enough, some people demonized her for her ethnicity, but plenty of people don’t. This shouldn’t be cause to dismiss the myriad legitimate reasons to recognize that, country of origin aside, then as now there were those (starting with at least two other Beatles) who saw her presence and input as disruptive and destructive; ethnicity doesn’t enter into it.
The question I would like to ask anyone associated with The Beatles is what happens to the 52 hours of footage that won’t be utilised in the upcoming Let It Be film (rejigged version)by Peter Jackson later in the year?
Will those 52 hours remain in the archives for another 50 years? I can’t see myself being around for that grand release 50 years from now.
Regarding the Yoko conversation you had. The best quote on it is ironically from Cynthia Lennon.
“Yoko had 10 years, I had 10 years and I would have preferred the 10 years I had with him. I had the raw talent and the raw human being before the sycophants arrived.”
True.
People are attracted like moths to a flame by people who are famous. It changes everyone. I agree with your point about Epstein being a gatekeeper from all the star catchers.
Could you imagine Yoko for example being so determined to capture a “star” if it was just say the drummer from The Hollies, Bobby Elliot, for example? She was on a mission. The bigger the star, the bigger the mission, and hunting a star doesn’t come bigger than John Lennon, damaged by years on drugs…he was a ripe target for her.
The question I would like to ask anyone associated with The Beatles is what happens to the 52 hours of footage that won’t be utilised in the upcoming Let It Be film (rejigged version)by Peter Jackson later in the year?
Will those 52 hours remain in the archives for another 50 years? I can’t see myself being around for that grand release 50 years from now.
Regarding the Yoko conversation you had. The best quote on it is ironically from Cynthia Lennon.
“Yoko had 10 years, I had 10 years and I would have preferred the 10 years I had with him. I had the raw talent and the raw human being before the sycophants arrived.”
True.
People are attracted like moths to a flame by people who are famous. It changes everyone. I agree with your point about Epstein being a gatekeeper from all the star catchers.
Could you imagine Yoko for example being so determined to capture a “star” if it was just say the drummer from The Hollies, Bobby Elliot, for example? She was on a mission. The bigger the star, the bigger the mission, and hunting a star doesn’t come bigger than John Lennon, damaged by years on drugs…he was a ripe target for her.
You let yourself down with constant criticism of a flawed man broken by his childhood. Questions from your guest are virtually ignored so that you can go on a rant tearing Lennon down. Very strange for a Beatles fan.
He loved Yoko, I am sure she loved him and generally wanted the best for him. Maybe she thought involving him in art projects and protest could save him from the tragedy deep in his life because of his childhood. He was already lost before she came along, check out Hunter Davies’ biography for interviews with him at the time. Then Epstein’s death who I am sure he loved. He was drunk, violent and out of his mind on drugs during the “Lost Weekend”, yet put forward as a good phase for him. He was constantly in touch with Yoko during this phase anyway and couldn’t live without him.
It has been more than 50 years, time to get over it. If it hadn’t been for Yoko I am sure he would not have made it through the 70s. And nothing about his eventual death is useful for anything.
Without “her”
You let yourself down with constant criticism of a flawed man broken by his childhood. Questions from your guest are virtually ignored so that you can go on a rant tearing Lennon down. Very strange for a Beatles fan.
He loved Yoko, I am sure she loved him and generally wanted the best for him. Maybe she thought involving him in art projects and protest could save him from the tragedy deep in his life because of his childhood. He was already lost before she came along, check out Hunter Davies’ biography for interviews with him at the time. Then Epstein’s death who I am sure he loved. He was drunk, violent and out of his mind on drugs during the “Lost Weekend”, yet put forward as a good phase for him. He was constantly in touch with Yoko during this phase anyway and couldn’t live without him.
It has been more than 50 years, time to get over it. If it hadn’t been for Yoko I am sure he would not have made it through the 70s. And nothing about his eventual death is useful for anything.
Without “her”
I disagree with comments that your interest in the Beatles’ personal relationships is unseemly. When it comes to either historical figures or artists of a certain stature (and the Beatles are both) it is a legit line of inquiry. I also think you wisely steered away from the purely prurient when there are plenty of such dark alleys you could have wandered into.
Your conclusions about John and Yoko mirror my own pretty much exactly: the myth is clearly that but the full picture is complex and elusive and she is not the simple demon often portrayed. I don’t think you spoke cruelly or without foundation about her or anyone else.
I may be able to offer you some insight about Jane Asher though it is based purely on speculation. As a woman who once took on a similar project, what the Ashers did looks to me like what a woman does when she is interested in a man but thinks he does not meet her standard for education, culture and worldliness. She may try to “fix” it so he is a worthy mate who will understand what she is talking about. Her young age at the time and the family involvement is weird and intriguing but I do recognize the impulse. I think Paul wanted the education they offered. And I do not think it is irrelevant that Linda Eastman was similarly an educated woman from a high status family.
Whatever else I might think about Linda or Yoko, neither is a bimbo.
I disagree with comments that your interest in the Beatles’ personal relationships is unseemly. When it comes to either historical figures or artists of a certain stature (and the Beatles are both) it is a legit line of inquiry. I also think you wisely steered away from the purely prurient when there are plenty of such dark alleys you could have wandered into.
Your conclusions about John and Yoko mirror my own pretty much exactly: the myth is clearly that but the full picture is complex and elusive and she is not the simple demon often portrayed. I don’t think you spoke cruelly or without foundation about her or anyone else.
I may be able to offer you some insight about Jane Asher though it is based purely on speculation. As a woman who once took on a similar project, what the Ashers did looks to me like what a woman does when she is interested in a man but thinks he does not meet her standard for education, culture and worldliness. She may try to “fix” it so he is a worthy mate who will understand what she is talking about. Her young age at the time and the family involvement is weird and intriguing but I do recognize the impulse. I think Paul wanted the education they offered. And I do not think it is irrelevant that Linda Eastman was similarly an educated woman from a high status family.
Whatever else I might think about Linda or Yoko, neither is a bimbo.
I’m hearing a bunch of tangents rather than the topic of discussion. Thirty-five minutes into it, I pressed stop.
I’m hearing a bunch of tangents rather than the topic of discussion. Thirty-five minutes into it, I pressed stop.
I see this one’s caught a lot of flack. I enjoyed it and it’s the questions I’d ask to the people I’d ask them to. Hypothetically.
I see this one’s caught a lot of flack. I enjoyed it and it’s the questions I’d ask to the people I’d ask them to. Hypothetically.