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My guest today is best known in Beatles world for having published Nowhere Man (originally in 2000 but since revised in 2015), a book in part drawn from Rosen’s exclusive access to John Lennon’s diaries. He is also the author of the newly-published memoir, Bobby in Naziland, a telling of his coming of age in Flatbush during the late 50s and early 60s. Rosen’s work captures the essence of time and place, with an eye for detail and an ear for the rhythm; true for both of the aforementioned titles.
Nowhere Man is a fascinating synthesis, based on interviews and original research as well as a reconstruction of the Lennon diaries. Rosen fleshes out a unique perspective on who John was during his last five years, drawn from John’s own privately expressed words. You won’t want to miss this illuminating discussion.
Check out Robert’s works and events here: http://www.robertrosennyc.com/blog
Perhaps there are two ways we have attempted to interpret John.
One: Outside observer – When we approach Lennon as Other, he appears chaotic, insane, violent, rageful, contradictory, lying, full of shit. We can provide a laundry list of sins and say, “I have never done any of those things, I display more consistent and morally upright behavior, therefore I am ontologically different from Lennon.” John appears as a strange mutation from the “normal” human experience. And as Rosen said, some react to the sins list with anger and try to preserve the Lennon mythology. Others revel in his sins as they differentiate Lennon from their putative morally superior existence, and thus they may promote purging such as sinful character from our collective memory. He may be poisoning the youth with his old ways!
Two: I think the other way to understand Lennon is by experiencing his insanity. Rosen said some people embrace the flawed Lennon because it makes him more human. By that I think people see themselves in Lennon. I know I do, for better and way too often for worse. I think because of both nurture and nature, John had a very fluid sense of self and reality. His identity and sense of the world was constantly in flux. I have experienced this too (for me they call it bipolar disorder with psychosis, but even that is an ephemeral label that does not serve me well). I have lived as an evangelical Christian seminary student married to a Japanese-American artist; an army officer; an atheist; an opioid junkie; an alcoholic; suicide attempter; a writer who thinks everything he writes is pure shit; a Republican; a Democrat; a socialist; an anarchist revolutionary; a New Age reiki master; a tattooed drop out; a quantum philosopher; an acid dropper; a paranoid psychotic; a player; a rageful maniac; a liar; a lover; a son; a friend. And I’m no one special – there are plenty of people like this, but John had the fame and megaphone to express it.
I’ve always identified with John more than the other Beatles, not because of his mythology, but because of his insanity. For those of us who are hyper-sensitive to fluid senses of self and reality, John Lennon makes perfect sense, whether it was the brilliance of his music or the terror of his behavior. John is like looking in the mirror and functions both as a vindication and indictment of ourselves.
Attempting to grasp self and reality with such a tenuous grip is an elusive life-long quest that tortures the self and leaves a devasting field of casualties. But it is often from where we derive great ideas (e.g., Nietzsche, Kafka, Plath, David Foster Wallace). I do wonder, had Chapman not shot John that night, would John Lennon had done it to himself like the Hunter S. Thompson he was reading?
What a weird day this is. 2/20/20. I was actually at the Dakota with my son today. On the train into the city I was reading Steve Gorman’s book. ( Black Crowes’drummer ) He is a big Hunter Thompson fan and mentioned that Hunter killed himself on Feb 20. I did not know that Lennon read Thompson’s work. I do believe that if MDC didn’t do his evil deed, we would have lost John to natural causes or self destructive behavior. I guess we should be thankful we had him for 40 years.
Lennon’s strength was lyrical. McCartney and George Martin made sure their product above expectations. After the Beatles his work declined fairly fast.Became mediocre and lacked focus. Imagine was actually part of Yoko Ono’s poem Grape (1965) but he never gave her credit. He was very hypocritical and bitter.
Perhaps there are two ways we have attempted to interpret John.
One: Outside observer – When we approach Lennon as Other, he appears chaotic, insane, violent, rageful, contradictory, lying, full of shit. We can provide a laundry list of sins and say, “I have never done any of those things, I display more consistent and morally upright behavior, therefore I am ontologically different from Lennon.” John appears as a strange mutation from the “normal” human experience. And as Rosen said, some react to the sins list with anger and try to preserve the Lennon mythology. Others revel in his sins as they differentiate Lennon from their putative morally superior existence, and thus they may promote purging such as sinful character from our collective memory. He may be poisoning the youth with his old ways!
Two: I think the other way to understand Lennon is by experiencing his insanity. Rosen said some people embrace the flawed Lennon because it makes him more human. By that I think people see themselves in Lennon. I know I do, for better and way too often for worse. I think because of both nurture and nature, John had a very fluid sense of self and reality. His identity and sense of the world was constantly in flux. I have experienced this too (for me they call it bipolar disorder with psychosis, but even that is an ephemeral label that does not serve me well). I have lived as an evangelical Christian seminary student married to a Japanese-American artist; an army officer; an atheist; an opioid junkie; an alcoholic; suicide attempter; a writer who thinks everything he writes is pure shit; a Republican; a Democrat; a socialist; an anarchist revolutionary; a New Age reiki master; a tattooed drop out; a quantum philosopher; an acid dropper; a paranoid psychotic; a player; a rageful maniac; a liar; a lover; a son; a friend. And I’m no one special – there are plenty of people like this, but John had the fame and megaphone to express it.
I’ve always identified with John more than the other Beatles, not because of his mythology, but because of his insanity. For those of us who are hyper-sensitive to fluid senses of self and reality, John Lennon makes perfect sense, whether it was the brilliance of his music or the terror of his behavior. John is like looking in the mirror and functions both as a vindication and indictment of ourselves.
Attempting to grasp self and reality with such a tenuous grip is an elusive life-long quest that tortures the self and leaves a devasting field of casualties. But it is often from where we derive great ideas (e.g., Nietzsche, Kafka, Plath, David Foster Wallace). I do wonder, had Chapman not shot John that night, would John Lennon had done it to himself like the Hunter S. Thompson he was reading?
What a weird day this is. 2/20/20. I was actually at the Dakota with my son today. On the train into the city I was reading Steve Gorman’s book. ( Black Crowes’drummer ) He is a big Hunter Thompson fan and mentioned that Hunter killed himself on Feb 20. I did not know that Lennon read Thompson’s work. I do believe that if MDC didn’t do his evil deed, we would have lost John to natural causes or self destructive behavior. I guess we should be thankful we had him for 40 years.
Lennon’s strength was lyrical. McCartney and George Martin made sure their product above expectations. After the Beatles his work declined fairly fast.Became mediocre and lacked focus. Imagine was actually part of Yoko Ono’s poem Grape (1965) but he never gave her credit. He was very hypocritical and bitter.
This episode was surely one of your most fascinating! I think Rosen’s book confused a lot of folks when it was first published because of the whole “extrapolation” angle, the nature of how the diaries were obtained, and Fred Seaman’s perceived “shadiness.”
It was great to hear Rosen’s story right from the source – the whole scenario read like a movie… especially his extremely changing relationships with Fred Seaman and Yoko Ono.
Rosen’s story confirmed what a lot of us were surmising about Lennon’s five-year “retirement/househusband” existence even as far back as 1981, 1982. The marketing plan that Lennon and Ono constructed to sell the “Double Fantasy” album and “brand,” as it were – the happy househusband baking bread, the joyous days with Sean, the “it was great to relax and not have the pressure of the music industry on me / I haven’t picked up a guitar in five years” line – was oversold to paint this very specific “fantasy” picture of Lennon’s life and the Lennon/Ono marriage.
For first- and second-generation BeatlesGeeks, it all confirms a bit of reality that was suspected anyway, but I would think Rosen and his book would be extremely enlightening to those BeatlesGeeks who were born, say, in the 1970s and after – these are the folks who primarily know Lennon filtered through the massive and ongoing Lennon as Gandhi-ish “Man of Peace” campaign that Yoko Ono instituted within months of Lennon’s murder. The image of Lennon created by this machine leaves Lennon as a “broad stroke” – man of peace, world peace, dedicated to peace – instead of the very human, complex genius that he was.
This episode was surely one of your most fascinating! I think Rosen’s book confused a lot of folks when it was first published because of the whole “extrapolation” angle, the nature of how the diaries were obtained, and Fred Seaman’s perceived “shadiness.”
It was great to hear Rosen’s story right from the source – the whole scenario read like a movie… especially his extremely changing relationships with Fred Seaman and Yoko Ono.
Rosen’s story confirmed what a lot of us were surmising about Lennon’s five-year “retirement/househusband” existence even as far back as 1981, 1982. The marketing plan that Lennon and Ono constructed to sell the “Double Fantasy” album and “brand,” as it were – the happy househusband baking bread, the joyous days with Sean, the “it was great to relax and not have the pressure of the music industry on me / I haven’t picked up a guitar in five years” line – was oversold to paint this very specific “fantasy” picture of Lennon’s life and the Lennon/Ono marriage.
For first- and second-generation BeatlesGeeks, it all confirms a bit of reality that was suspected anyway, but I would think Rosen and his book would be extremely enlightening to those BeatlesGeeks who were born, say, in the 1970s and after – these are the folks who primarily know Lennon filtered through the massive and ongoing Lennon as Gandhi-ish “Man of Peace” campaign that Yoko Ono instituted within months of Lennon’s murder. The image of Lennon created by this machine leaves Lennon as a “broad stroke” – man of peace, world peace, dedicated to peace – instead of the very human, complex genius that he was.
As interesting as it is , and it is .. still, I am uncomfortable with the likes of Fred Seaman
( a common thief and opportunist…. even John didn’t trust him from what I have read )….
Fred and any associates making money off the name are basically Beatle magpies, aren’t they .. ?
Like Geoffery Guliano, a person who seems to have despised the Beatles but couldn’t stop writing about them and cashing the checks …. oh well, just my opinion..
As interesting as it is , and it is .. still, I am uncomfortable with the likes of Fred Seaman
( a common thief and opportunist…. even John didn’t trust him from what I have read )….
Fred and any associates making money off the name are basically Beatle magpies, aren’t they .. ?
Like Geoffery Guliano, a person who seems to have despised the Beatles but couldn’t stop writing about them and cashing the checks …. oh well, just my opinion..
Really loved this episode. Could you tell what version of Watching the Wheels was playing at the start and where I can hear it?
Thank you
That was enlightening indeed. I always viewed “Nowhere Man” as highly suspect, although I did not doubt the overall portrait of Lennon as a tortured, not entirely sane man. This interview completely changed my assessment of Rosen’s credibility.
Really loved this episode. Could you tell what version of Watching the Wheels was playing at the start and where I can hear it?
Thank you
That was enlightening indeed. I always viewed “Nowhere Man” as highly suspect, although I did not doubt the overall portrait of Lennon as a tortured, not entirely sane man. This interview completely changed my assessment of Rosen’s credibility.
Really loved this episode. Could you tell me what version of Watching the Wheels was playing at the start and where I can hear it?
Thank you
Really loved this episode. Could you tell me what version of Watching the Wheels was playing at the start and where I can hear it?
Thank you
FANTASTIC episode. Luv it.
FANTASTIC episode. Luv it.
Somehow the statement from George Harrison comes to mind in this, ” none of us really knew how screwed up John really was ” . I do have an issue that all that was said and remebered here is 100% accurate a lot of it is hearsay to use a legal term. But I enjoyed the episode.Thanks.
Somehow the statement from George Harrison comes to mind in this, ” none of us really knew how screwed up John really was ” . I do have an issue that all that was said and remebered here is 100% accurate a lot of it is hearsay to use a legal term. But I enjoyed the episode.Thanks.
This was fascinating, thank you Robert and Robert. I was prepared to be rather annoyed with Robert (Rosen) for some rather shady behaviour, but this conversation has changed my mind, and I will – in lockdown – look for some of his work. A great conversation. Thank you.
This was fascinating, thank you Robert and Robert. I was prepared to be rather annoyed with Robert (Rosen) for some rather shady behaviour, but this conversation has changed my mind, and I will – in lockdown – look for some of his work. A great conversation. Thank you.
Lennon, unfortunately had early on abandonment issues, inferiority complex. Had Mommy complex and was a misogynist. He never completed the primal therapy with Arthur Janov in 1970. He was reckless with family and publicly.
Lennon, unfortunately had early on abandonment issues, inferiority complex. Had Mommy complex and was a misogynist. He never completed the primal therapy with Arthur Janov in 1970. He was reckless with family and publicly.
I am not convinced that, by the time of his death, John Lennon had put the Beatles totally behind him. If the band were about to release a documentary about their life and career, there was no way he would not have been a part of that.
I am not convinced that, by the time of his death, John Lennon had put the Beatles totally behind him. If the band were about to release a documentary about their life and career, there was no way he would not have been a part of that.