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He’s back, and with a terrific topic: each of us choosing 7 moments in the history of The Beatles that we would’ve liked to have been around to witness as a fly on the wall. The criteria being, occasions where the history is unclear, or simply moments that would’ve been amazing to witness.
This ended up as an interesting Rorschach exercise, mapping out our respective concentrated areas of interest as well. You’ll hear ours but we want to hear yours: leave ’em for consideration on Twitter, Facebook or on the site. We’ll take ’em up for a future show.
Either the acid trip in LA with Crosby, McGuinn, and Peter Fonda that eventually inspired She Said She Said. Just the pared down Wikipedia account of this event is fascinating as it was pivotal in a couple of ways: it inspired SSSS and David Crosby apparently told George about Ravi Shankar.
Or the recording session of She Said She Said where Paul walked out after what, IIRC, he described as a “Barney”, an argument. I have a hunch that, because he hadn’t dropped acid that day in LA, John and George ostracized him for not being able to “get” the song and the paranoia it evokes.
Fantastic show. I could listen to you two talk about the Beatles for days.
Okay, my list that doesn’t include anything you gentlemen discussed, in chronological order (some not necessarily to solve any mysteries so much as I want to observe the facial expressions and nonverbal cues):
1) That first performance of Paul’s in the Quarrymen where he choked on the guitar solo and resolved never to take lead on stage again.
2) John and Cynthia meeting for the first time where, according to her, he stole a pen from her.
3) The Cavern Club lunchtime performance when Brian Epstein came down to see them for the first time. And while I know it didn’t happen like Birth of The Beatles where he immediately asked to manage them, I’m going to count that managerial meeting as part of my number #3 anyway, because I want to hear George and John making excuses for why Paul was still in bed. 😀
4) The recording session for “Tip Of My Tongue” and, if I recall correctly, the Roy Orbison ballad version of “Please Please Me”. I want to hear how the Beatles attempted the former and what the latter sounded like to see why George Martin rejected it — and I want to hear the conversations about those songs.
5) The night they smoked pot with Dylan the first time. Because, as we all now know, there are seven levels.
6) John playing “Strawberry Fields Forever” for the first time to George Martin and the subsequent discussion about how to record it.
7) John’s “I’m Jesus Christ” business meeting. Because that shit’s hilarious.
Re your fifth choice: was that when Dylan and the Beatles cowrote that timeless classic Pneumonia Ceilings, as recounted in Mark Shipper’s painstakingly researched biography Paperback Writer? https://www.expectingrain.com/dok/int/pneumonia.html
Yes! Though I would almost consider the recording session in ’63 where they put down a rudimentary version of “Bohemian Rhapsody” and abandoned it.
Ben Weisman cowrote Pocketful of Rainbows from GI Blues, which I think is rather good. And that line in Rock-a-hula baby, “She really moves the grass around”, surely rates a smile? (Though I don’t know whether Weisman had any say in the lyrics.) The songbook Elvis Presley: The Hollywood Years has more of his work:
Almost always true [Blue Hawaii]
As long as I have you [King Creole]
Beyond the bend [It Happened at the World’s Fair]
Crawfish [King Creole]
Danny [King Creole]
Don’t ask me why [King Creole]
Don’t leave me now [Jailhouse Rock]
Fame and fortune [Frank Sinatra TV show]
First in line [from the album Elvis]
Follow that dream [Follow that dream]
Fun in Acapulco [Fun in Acapulco]
Got a lot o’ of livin’ to do [Loving You]
Happy ending [It Happened at the World’s Fair]
I got lucky [Kid Galahad]
In my way [Wild in the Country]
I slipped, I stumbled, I fell [Wild in the Country]
It feels so right [Tickle Me]
It’s carnival time [Roustabout]
Moonlight swim [Blue Hawaii]
Pocketful of rainbows [GI Blues]
Ridin’ the rainbow [Kid Galahad]
Rock-a-hula baby [Blue Hawaii]
Slowly but surely [Fun in Acapulco bonus cut]
Steppin’ out of line [Blue Hawaii]
Summer kisses, winter tears [Flaming Star]
This is living [Kid Galahad]
Wooden heart [GI Blues]
The tape of this ‘final’ meeting which you discuss is indeed a fascinating topic but one thing you should bear in mind is that a date of 10/9 written on a tape recording would be interpreted as 10 September in the UK but 9 October in the US. This may shine some light on when this meeting took place. This information would have been written using the UK convention therefore it’s the earlier date. Still enlightening though.
Superb topic; will think about my choices.
BTW, relating to your “time travel” theme, a few years ago I cracked up watching “The Tonight Show” when Jimmy Fallon informed the studio audience that a celebrity was sitting among them, one of the most familiar figures ever, though looking quite out out-of-fashion in his dress and hair: John Lennon, time-traveling from the year 1966.
Also, even after all of Lewisohn’s research, it’s still not clear to me whether it was George Martin or Ron Richards that found Ringo’s drumming on Sept. 4, 1962 so inadequate that Andy White was booked for the next week’s session. Either way, Ringo’s and Martin’s recollections in ANTHOLOGY (that Andy White was already there when Ringo first appeared, as a reaction to Pete Best’s previous session) were absolutely debunked by EMI’s documentation.
It got me thinking that there are problems with this exercise. First even if you were present at key events it would not necessarily solve any mysteries as what people say (particularly with Lennon) often does not bear any relation to what they are actually thinking. Also experiencing your ‘heroes’ as they actually are can sometimes be a let down. ..witness the Beatles meeting with Elvis. Nevertheless here are my seven:
1. Being in Alan William’s van taking the Beatles along with Lord Woodbine to Hamburg…particularly to observe the interaction of Sutcliffe and Lennon.
2. A performance In Hamburg of the five man Beatles once they’re in their stride…hopefully in front of lots of loud and drunk Germans…to see how good they were.
3.To be present at a session for ‘Help’ or ‘Rubber Soul’ so as to compare the dynamic of the group at their cooperative best to when they record later on.
4.The ‘All You Need is Love’ broadcast just to experience the ‘summer of love’ Beatles style and watch George Martin handle the orchestral arrangement.
5.Recording of ‘Yer Blues’: playing as a band again in a little room and to compare that with earlier sessions.
6.Recording of ‘You Know My Name’ for the clowning around and to see them working with Brian Jones.
7.Finally to overhear any conversations from late 69 to 70 between John, George and Ringo to find out if they had any awareness they were pushing McCartney too far over Klein.
Regarding The Life Magazine article that is mentioned. It makes it quite clear that Paul after two years of struggling is DONE with the Beatles way before Instant Karma is put out. I would think what pushes him over is Klein + Lennon business machinations and their treatment of the Let it Be material rather than Lennon’s announcement he was quitting.
How about any one of the lunchtime Cavern gigs in 1961? Just to witness that raw charisma and their chemistry in real time. I’ll bet most of their jokes would have gone over my head- local references or whatever.
A very interesting “if only we could show”. You hit two of mine for sure in – when Klaus Voorman first saw them in a dingey Hamburg bar, how amazing it would be to see such incredible talent as John, Paul & George in such a situation. The other was watching John & Paul write I Wanna Hold Your Hand!
After that it would be mostly historic recording sessions for me. Recording of Please Please Me, seeing George & Paul work out the guitar parts for “And Your Bird Can Sing” , recording of Strawberry Fields and George cutting the guitar solo on Something …I will stop there.
The meeting stuff near the end on 69 is interesting to pick but it would illuminate the real history of the period! Fascinating speculation.
My Fly on the Wall Moments
1. First LSD trip at the dentist
2. Second LSD trip with Peter Fonda and The Byrd’s
3. John meets Yoko at the Indra Gallery
4. Recording of Tomorrow Never Knows (we agree on this one)
5. Paul plays Hey Jude for John for the first time
6. John visits George’s house for a private talk after Paul releases first solo album with mock interview
7. Related: Ringo visits Paul to ask him to postpone him album and gets yelled at
So Jane was just 17 when Paul moved in? I’m amazed that both of you were able to resist saying “You know what I mean.”
Barely 17. She had just turned 17 shortly before meeting Paul.
Love the “Tomorrow Never Knows” outtakes. IMHO, it is still the greatest single track of any album, Beatles, et al. Thank you. TMN will always be a religious experience for me. Perfection.
Surprised you didn’t include the ‘lunch time argument’ during the Let it Be sessions which resulted in George walking out with the ‘see you around the clubs’ comment.
Thanks for another great show. I’m so glad you’re back.
FABULOUS EPISODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, Robert. Your analysis of early 1970 is razor sharp and inspiring. SATB moves from strength to strength to strength.
I definitely think you two need another show on this subject!! Getting into the granular of moments most of us never even lived thru is a fantastic area. I did want to ask (and correct me if I’m wrong): the time that you and Jeff spoke about regarding John & Paul’s emotional breakdown/bonding in Florida… I think it might have been later in 1964, during their tour proper. The hurricane had come in during September and they could not get to Jacksonville… so the only way was to go to the Keys until it all passed over. I believe that they did go back up and there are photos of them onstage fighting the leftover winds. In any case, you have one of the best podcasts out there and you both certainly have much much more to talk about! Thanks a million 🙂
Hi Amy,
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I did indeed conflate the two 1964 Florida visits; I realized that after the fact, when my recollection of the hurricane crept in.
An interesting idea would be to see if there’s any truth to the rumour about John and Paul actually meeting before the “accepted” time at the church fete. Here’s the relevant part from Tune In:
In certain private company, Paul sometimes reveals that he hadn’t only seen John on buses before the Woolton fete, but they’d also exchanged a few words. Paul says he was working as a paper-boy (on his bike, delivering the Echo to local houses in the evenings) when he once talked to John outside the newsagent’s shop. John never mentioned it, and Paul has chosen, consistently for decades, never to say it publicly. He was a paper-boy after the McCartneys relocated to Forthlin Road in summer 1956, when he turned 14. Paul is shy about giving away the shop’s identity to anyone who’d print it, but one local family who knew him think it was ‘Abbas’. At 166 Aigburth Road, close to the Cast Iron Shore, W. W. Abba would have been an oddly distant place of employment for a lad living and delivering three miles away in Allerton, and – as it was a mile further still from John’s house – it’s far from being a cast iron certainty. For now, there’s merely the possibility to digest that Paul McCartney first met John Lennon outside a shop called Abba.
Mark Lewisohn. The Beatles – All These Years – Extended Special Edition: Volume One: Tune In 1 (Kindle Locations 27521-27529). Hachette UK. Kindle Edition.
Great show, as always. To be clear, ‘the night we cried’ took place on Sept 10, 1964 in Key West. Not during the Feb 1964 visit.
Great show guys. As an aside Re the arrival of Ringo, I’m more inclined to believe Mark Lewisohn’s account that the three drummers were only asked to fill in for what would have been the rest of the summer season (about 3 weeks) whilst Ringo was still at Butlins. Of course it became irrelevant anyway. I’ve never held the view that Ringo was not their first choice and it makes all the contemporaneous stuff we have from that period a complete fallacy if they didn’t want him and ONLY him.
Fantastic show. One of my favourites out of all the many great episodes.
My personal FotW moment would not come until after the Beatles. I would love to know exactly what Yoko said to persuade John to return in ‘75. In fact I’d like to have been a fly on the wall for those next five years ! Why did he go back ? Why did he stay ? Was he really happy ? What was really going in for those 5 “happy-house-husband” years. Would love to have some in-depth analysis of that time in John’s life.
Seems the very opposite of Lennon’s character up until then!
Would enjoy hearing your take on those Dakota years.
Great show as usual. The moment that gets me is Yoko in the recording studio in January 69′ which leads George to punch John.