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Now that there’s been an ending to the story, it seems like a good time to examine the intersection between artists who stood for love and peace and a career criminal/sociopath who will forever be tied to them, by virtue of the demented “gospel” ripped straight from their albums. It may be unfathomable from this distance that a group of young people could be persuaded by Charles Manson to commit unspeakable acts, but that’s exactly what happened in the summer of 1969, when seven innocents (and an unborn baby) were brutally slain, purportedly to ignite a race war.
I’m joined for this discussion by a friend of the show, whom many of you are doubtless familiar with: journalist Ivor Davis, who penned his memoirs of touring with The Beatles across America during the 1960s. But did you know that he was at the center of covering the Tate-LaBianca case and even penned the first book on the crimes, Five To Die (1970)? It was his findings that provided a roadmap to the prosecution, later chronicled in Vincent Bugliosi’s best-seller, Helter Skelter (co-written by Curt Gentry).
There is some truth to the “Helter Skelter” theory and motive behind the murders. There are other theories out there. One of which is financial gain. Apparently Charlie knew Melcher wasn’t living at Cielo anymore. According to Kasabian, Charlie, et al, went to Venice after the LaBianca murders to kill some more, or possibly to pay off a motorcycle gang that Charlie owed money to. ( we never learn how much money Charlie took from the LB household ) There are many podcasts dedicated to the TLB murders. They creep me out. However, I don’t think Bugliosi’s book is the word of total truth. Sad that the Beatles got caught up with this BS.
As Bono once sang: “Charlie Manson stole this song from the Beatles, we’re stealing it back.”
Later on, in an interview conducted when he was 53 years of age, Manson disavowed any Beatle connection: “I am not of the Sixties. I’m not a generation of the Sixties. The Sixties were little kids to me-like punk rock is to you, that’s what the Beatles was to me. That’s not my era. My era was Bing Crosby. I’m fifty-three years old, I’m not a teeny bopper”. In the same interview, he claimed that Helter Skelter was “a hotel in the desert where I run a poker game”.
The ONLY thing Manson had in common with the Beatles is that they were on earth at roughly the same time.
I don’t think Charles Manson stole ‘Helter Skelter’ from the Beatles, it was the media that did this, and I think it is fair to suggest that people should re-evaluate their approach and how they associate the Beatles with the Manson murders.
The problem with Bono is that he assumes a position of power to change cultural icons and memes. He didn’t steal the song back from Manson… If at all, a couple of great versions of the song would be required, with (slightly) different arrangements; e.g. I think of Alvin Lee’s version of I Want You (She’s So Heavy).
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I like the comparison between Manson and Lennon’s story… but does it even fulfill the definition of correlation – I would argue that with our current understanding of ‘human being’ there is no causal relation, either.
Someone needs to ‘steal’ it back from the sanctimonious faker Bonio now…think some bloke called Paul McCartney might have played it enough times to verify it’s his and no evil Manson sensationalist can claim ownership at any time. In the end, the murders had nothing whatsoever to do with The Beatles and the subject might have been dealt with in a podcast that deals with lies and fabrications around The Beatles. Not knocking SATB but the more these stories get linked to The Beatles the more they become part of the story.
Great show. Very interesting suggestion re: if the girls hadn’t been acting so flipping weird at trial, maybe Manson would have gotten off.
V illuminating – thx Robert, and Ivor
Mr. Rodriguez
I have great respect for you and what you do with the show. And it is only with great respect that I’m telling you you got this one all wrong. Sir, you got this one hella wrong. You’re not even close.
I’ll make it really quick. Read the book Chaos by Tom O’Neill.
At their best your Beatles shows give us insight and shed meaning on the most exciting pop band.
This show you did the exact opposite. With I’m sure good intentions you restated old tropes, myths and lies.
If you truly want to keep your show’s credibility read Chaos and take this show down. It’s not a good look. To put it extremely politely your information on this show is, shall we say, outdated. Yeah. Let’s just say that.
I wouldn’t bother doing a Manson/Beatles show. Manson is a very big can of worms. But if you’re insistent on going THERE you need to do a completely new show. There’s too much information out there now to not be up to date sir.
Again, love the show. That’s why I’m writing this.
This and Another Kind Of Mind are the best Beatles podcasts out there.
irene.
This is a fun game. But when we’re playing what-if, let’s not forget that one of the many great things about the Beatles was that they ended as an entity in 1970. Individually, they made some good music, but the ineffable magic of the Beatles was preserved within the decade they defined. Their collective inspiration was waning a bit at the end (if you agree that Let It Be is an inconsistent album) but we never had to watch it dissipate significantly. Now I’ll make the obligatory reference to the Stones on record from the mid-80’s onward as an example of titans working well below their previously set standards (even though I love the Stones and am very happy they continued to be the world’s greatest r&r road show). I actually believe that the only positive thing about the nightmare of John’s death is that the inevitably disappointing reunion never took place. Enjoyed the episode, though my interest in solo Beatles music is pretty limited.
Sure it’s fun. That’s what makes the Beatles cool. 4 legit lead men in 1 band. 4 parts of a whole. there is collaboration by 2 throughout the 70’s on several albums of good even great quality. The Stones faltered in the mid 70’s a bit and re-established themselves a bit towards the end of the decade and early 80’s. The peaked in 1972 perhaps…Wings history will be re-accessed hopefully sooner rather than later.
Robert, are going to post your list too?
In my alternate reality where the Beatles still had their disagreements but ultimately kept their contractual obligations to make music together because Paul didn’t sue them, they did their solo albums in 1970 and reconvened in 1971 to put together:
The Beatles – Imagine
(Side One)
1. Imagine
2. Another Day
3. Gimme Some Truth
4. It Don’t Come Easy
5. Crippled Inside
6. Dear Boy
7. Jealous Guy
(Side Two)
8. Deep Blue
9. Oh Yoko!
10. Eat At Home
11. How?
12. Tomorrow
13. Oh My Love
14. Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey
1972 sees Paul & Linda make Red Rose Speedway (actually Ram still probably happened in a different form too) & “Live & Let Die”, John & Yoko still make New York City, George continues work on Living In the Material World and Ringo releases Back Off Boogaloo…they’re still disagreeing with Paul and there’s definitely a sense that George wants nothing to do with the operation anymore. It still leads to one last album in 1973 before they amicably part ways:
The Beatles – Band On The Run
(Side One)
1. Band On The Run
2. I’m The Greatest
3. Mind Games
4. Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth)
5. Photograph
6. Let Me Roll it
7. Out the Blue
(Side Two)
8. Jet
9. One Day (At A Time)
10. Miss O’Dell
11. Country Dreamer
12. I Know (I Know)
13. Oh My My
14. Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five
An underappreciated reality about the Beatles is they continued to make great music postbreakup.
Yep! You hit the nail on the head and that needs a little more fleshing out now that the there seems to be room for it 🙂 …and Apple Years compilation box of all the JPGR singles with a book explaining the era would be very nice.
My point of departure is where Ringo, jamming with George, plays a demo of “Early 1970” and convinces George to Split ATMP into two albums, moving “Isn’t It a Pity” to next year. Then the 1970 Solo Albums come out. John Tells Paul, “We can alternate, the solo’s on even years, the Beatles Thing on odd. So we get a Double Album “Imagine…The Beatles” in 71, Paul and John do the 72 Albums, but decide to make a Beatles double A Side for Luck Of the Irish / Give Ireland Back to the Irish Single, and another for “Bangla Desh”/”Bugaloo” ending the Year with “The Beatles Concert for Bangla Desh” with the NY Symphony!. 74 Brings another Dbl Album “Living In The Material World” and 75 gives us another dbl “Band On The Run”. John ‘retires’ until 1980 when they get back with “Starting Over”.
Loved this episode. I do find your fantasy albums lean heavily on the slow and mellow. Like John told George in Jan 69: “we’re a rock and roll band…”
I made a dystopian version of a Beatles fantasy album a few years back. Spotify playlist with my album cover idea are in the website link.
It Don’t Come Easy (1972)
The Mamas and the Papas were forced to record People Like Us in 1971. Result sounded like four people trying to avoid a lawsuit, as per Michelle Phillips. Imagine if EMI or Allen Klein managed to do the same to the Beatles.
McCartney once said the Beatles were getting too democratic for its own good. It was going to be 4 Lennon songs, 4 McCartney songs, 4 Harrison songs and 2 Starkey songs on the next record. What if that had actually happened?
So the Beatles decided to use their platform in the early 1970s to advance their causes with three political songs to kick it off. Rest of the album is mostly angry and depressing. The Beatles have basically succumbed to the times.
Side 1:
Power to the People
Give Ireland Back to the Irish
Bangla Desh
Gimme Some Truth
Oh Woman, Oh Why
Sue Me, Sue You Blues
It Don’t Come Easy
Side 2:
Hi Hi Hi
It’s So Hard
Apple Scruffs
Back Off Boogaloo
Working Class Hero
Another Day
Isn’t it a Pity
solid episode. some great choices and sequencing by the guest.