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John once observed that, in his opinion, Paul was “…an egomaniac about everything else about himself, but his bass playing” – which was as influential as it was innovative. It is therefore a delicious irony to report the same was true of John: while he touted his status as an artist (not to mention “genius”) at every opportunity, he could be surprisingly reserved / conflicted about his own technical abilities on his chief instrument.
In this episode, I talk with musician/producer Ben Rowling, who breaks down John’s unsung contribution to The Beatles’ sound, as well as the impact he had on the rhythm guitarists that came after. With isolations and recreation, no one will ever again think of John’s instrumental Beatles work as “invisible.”
Another great show. I am a guitarist who has been playing for 50 + years. John Lennon was NOT a primitive guitarist! He was fantastic, he just didn’t think and play like a guy who was restricted by training. He was a rocker. By the way I think John and George always meshed, that was a big part of the magic.
I liked your guest but he said some incorrect terms ,that were a little confusing…for instance he stated that “Across the Universe” was in ” open D” but then correctly said it was played in standard 440 tuning in D . All told a great show.
Obviously I meant D 2nd fret with open strings in 440 tuning, not open D tuning.
Interesting episode!
Thx Ryan.
So glad you hit on “I Want To Hold Your Hand”, ’cause I was always transfixed with John’s tone on that song. This was the first song I ever heard by The Beatles and it literally stopped me dead in my tracks. I was never the same after hearing this! Between John’s tone, his incredible playing and the bass chords Paul plays during the middle eight, I had never heard anything like it. Not to mention Ringo’s amazing drumming! Still gives me chills to this days!
So true.
Agreed. I wonder if those bass chords is the reason some folks think there’s an organ on this track. Sounds kinda like a Hammond.
Love rhythm to And Your Bird Can Sing. Rings like a bell under that dual guitar.
Would you say that John’s guitar work was similar to Ringo’s drumming insofar as he intuits and plays what the feel of the song requires rather than playing by rote or, in the other direction, veering into showinees?
Totally James. John and Ringo were very similar in their musical thinking as both jumped into things feet first and had a kind of telepathy.
Very enjoyable guys – thx a lot, and finishing with one of my top ten moments on a Beatles track, the superb solo on YCDT.
Thx Paul.
Another very enjoyable “Really Big Shew”! Loved the isolate tracks’ selection and also Ben Rowling’s recordings. Thanks, Ben! I’m gonna listen to it all again!
John’s playing on All my Loving is incredible . I’m always amazed someone can play that rhythm …. And then to play it on the Ed Sullivan show ! ?
I agree. I think the rhythm guitar makes the track. When I was young, I remember it was the first thing I noticed. It’s one of those things where you think anyone can play triplets, but who would have ever thought of playing them like that to begin with. I’m a big fan of late ’50s and early ’60s music and see no precedent for this.
Another fascinating SATB podcast, thanks guys. I love the way that even now there’s still so much to discover about the Beatles’ recordings. The isolations and Ben’s recreations were really illuminating and great to hear.
In Australia:-This episode was just so so great it blue my mind. I have always wondered how Lennon got that clucky chicken sound in I Wanna Hold your hand… It starts just before the vocal “Oh yeah I” and is repeated throughout the song….your guest by isolating the rhythm sorted it…brilliant-it is John’s HAMMERING on those heavy strings 13 to what though? 56?. Am I the ONLY one who has ever wondered about that chicken cluck effect on the rhythm or am I mad. I used to think it was George but it was John. I like your guest better than the other guy but I must admit to bias because I am a guitar play..lead and vocals and a BIG YES…at gigs, I have had TREMENDOUS difficulties playing the rhythm to All my Loving Whilst trying to sing it. Just on that, try and play AND sing the bass like to Silly Love Songs…Paul was IS a genius. On rhythm guitarists Bruce Welch takes some beating on The Savage.
One other point…I believe a whole show could be devoted to this and possibly should be, coz no other Beatles show has done it. Here it is! Has ANYBODY ever noted how Lennon alternates between lead and harmony on the vocals? Sometimes, when he cannot make the high register, Macca will sing it and Lennon will do a beautiful lower harmony and then revert back to the lead. Gawd he does this so often and BEAUTIFULLY.Lennon is one of the best harmony singers ever…some are so weird but enhance the songs magnificently.
Once again I rate this episode amongst the top three I have ever listened to. I would like to know the actions the three of them had/liked on their guitars…high? Low 1/16” at the high standard or what? What type of strings and gauges did they all use? Then again this may not interest most of your listeners but string gauge has a HELLUVA lot to do with sound. Hank Marvin uses railway tracks for that ‘twang’.
I would also like comments on what the Beatles thought of themselves as musos, guitar players etc. I think once, Lennon said Macca was the greatest bass player he had ever heard…I may be wrong though.
Your guest’s playing and explaining those parts, brings a new dimension to the programme. I hope he keeps it up! He too is a great player.
John kept his rhythm ‘sound’ the same forever seemingly…that trebly scratchy
overdrive sound…I could be wrong though…any comments?
Fantastic episode and as a guitarist I can tell you that the difficulty of playing those triplets throughout All My Loving cannot be overstated. The isolated tracks and Ben’s recreations do a great job of revealing how much Lennon’s rhythm drove the band’s overall sound.
When the Beatles hit the US in ‘64 I was 12 years old. Of course the first song I heard was “I Want To Hold Your Hand.” It was the Dave Dexter Capitol Records version which, compared with the British EMI version, is dirtier, dominated by the rhythm guitar, smothering Harridon’s Country and Western guitar fills. For me, the rhythm guitar at the beginning made all the difference. Not long after I heard the Beatles’ version of “Roll Over Beethoven,” again with the rhythm guitar dominating the listening experience. Lennon was never the invisible guitarist. Instead his driving beat allowed both McCartney and Harrison to add, respectively, imaginative bass lines and colorful lead lines to their songs. By the way, Harrison as the invisible singer is another red herring. Listen to the backup singing on “Twist and Shout” and “Help.” Both McCartney and Harrison sing, but the voice that comes through is George’s.”
Excellent episode! Really, really enjoyed that one. Structured beautifully and the conversation was enthralling. The recreated isolatiions were a perfect touch, Ben. Would love the McCartney episode re-done to have the same structure to it.
Great insights and analysis. I liken John’s guitar work to George ‘s backing vocals…they’re key and would be sorely missed if lost. I think George might be the best backup singer of the band in fact. But John had a distinctive style that meshed with George and of course Paul is simply the most effortlessly melodic and driving bass guitarist of all time.
It’s pure wonder that these four found each other and became one whole. That continues to amaze me as each of them, and I include Ringo, were amazing in their own right. But together they became something that may never be duplicated again.
Would love to hear a sequel show with more demonstrations like this, another one for John, then Paul and George. Let’s keep the drum demo show for another day.
Here in this 1977 interview with Eric Clapton he says that there was always this game( meaning guitar) between John and George and he said partly because John was a pretty good guitar player himself. Eric was referring to John’s Beatles years but Eric also played live with John as a member of his 1969 John Lennon Plastic Ono Band.
http://www.superseventies.com/ssericclapton.html
In this 2013 interview with Eric Clapton he says John Lennon was a great musician,amazing composer and friend.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/music/news/John-Lennon-does-not-need-any-definition-Eric-Clapton/articleshow/20241104.cms
Old Sock: John Lennon does not need any definition: Eric …
The man, the musician, a living icon Here’s Eric Clapton talking about his music, his memories of John Lennon, his influences and much, much
more.timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Here is a great online article by musician and song writer Peter Cross,The Beatles Are The Most Creative Band Of All Time and he says that many musicians besides him recognize Paul as one of the best bass guitar players ever.He too says that John and Paul are the greatest song composers and that to say that John and Paul are among 2 of the greatest singers in rock and roll is to state the obvious,and that John,Paul and George were all excellent guitarists and that George is underrated by people not educated about music but that Eric Clapton knew better,he also says that both John and Paul played great leads as well as innovative rhythm tracks.
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Beatles-are-the-Most-Creative-Band-of-All-Time&id=222245
And a guy who runs cool sites Keno’s Classic Rock n Roll Sit a Rolling Stones and a John Lennon fan site says in his review of The Beatles 1967-1970 Blue Album damn The Beatles were one great group and he said in his great review of The Beatles 1962-1966 Red album, that if you don’t love or at least like The Beatles and their music then you are not a true rock fan and more than likely will never ever get it.
He also says that John Lennon showed on Paul’s rocker Get Back why he should have played lead guitar more often because he did such a good job of it. He also said he played a pretty good slide guitar on George’s For Your Blue and he said John also played one of the first and best acid guitar parts on his great rocker Revolution.
http://www.keno.org/classic_rock/album_reviews/let_it_be.htm
http://www.keno.org/classic_rock/album_reviews/the_beatles_62_66.htm
http://www.keno.org/classic_rock/album_reviews/the_beatles_67_70.htm
http://www.keno.org/classic_rock/rock_albums_reviews.html
10 Greatest Ever Rhythm Guitarists John Lennon is # 8
http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/Rhythm-Guitar-1006-2011.aspx
The 13 Best Rhythm Guitarists by Mark Beaumont New Music Express
https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/best-rhythm-guitarists-2161619
Keno who runs The Rolling Stones,John Lennon and Classic Rock n Roll site said in his great 2017 review of The Beatles first album Please Please Me,that they were different from any other bands and music artists before them because they wrote,sang and played their own songs and before them music groups had professional song writers writing songs for them,he said John and Paul not only wrote great songs on please Please Me,but that John and Paul were both great lead singers who couldn’t be beat at the time,and that they were on their way to becoming the greatest rock and roll band ever. He also said that the album had rock and pop songs and that it starts with Paul’s I Saw Her Standing There which he calls pure rock and roll,and he said John’s vocal on Twist And Shout,(which John sang so great with a bad sore throat from a bad cold) was hard rock before any hard rock was being done.
http://www.keno.org/classic_rock/album_reviews/please_please_me.htm
Great youtube video series,The Genius of John Lennon’s Guitar by guitarist Mike Pachelli he also has great videos on The Genius Of George Harrison’s Guitar playing and The Genius of paul McCartney’s Guitar playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8YNfr9fFM
John Lennon’s Lead Guitar by Mike Parchelli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60q4J1RnsUg&t=489s
George Martin Says In This book his biography,All You Need is Ears,There’s No Doubt Lennon and McCartney Were good Musicians,They Had Good Musical Brains and The Brain Is Where Music Originates,It Has Nothing To Do With Your Fingers,As It Happened They Could All Play Their Own Instruments Very Well,And that Paul is an excellent music all- arounder, probably the best bass guitar-player there is, a brilliant guitarist,a first class drummer and a competent piano player.
George Martin said in The Beatles early days he tried to learn to play the guitar in order to have a better musical communication between him and The Beatles,but he couldn’t learn it and gave it up,but he says that John and Paul learned to play the piano far more quickly than he was able to master their instrument.
https://books.google.com/books?id=4Yoio9MewhcC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=george+martin+said+there%27s+no+doubt+that+lennon+and+mccartney+were+good+musicians+they+had+good+musical+brains&source=bl&ots=nYLJfbKBYz&sig=ACfU3U0ciQyDY9ddLPBm9p2MHaz0yFZaZw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwitotzd5ffkAhXumOAKHelPBjkQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
All You Need Is Ears
books.google.com
TELECASTER GUITAR FORUM DISCUSSION JOHN LENNON’S GREAT RHYTHM GUITAR PLAYING STYLE
Telecaster Discussion Page Reissue
Great discussion John Lennon’s Great Rhythm Playing Style
Including from the early Beatles years
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/john-lennons-rhythm-playing-style.568212/
What Was Important About Hamburg Germany To The Beatles Success As A Band? 1000’s of hours of live playing experience. The article also says that by comparison most bands today don’t play 1,200 times in their entire career.
https://www.gradesaver.com/outliers/q-and-a/what-was-important-about-hamburg-germany-and-the-beatles-success-as-a-band-291552
University of Pennsylvania ( 1 of the top ivy league universities in the US) graduate musicologist Alan W.Pollack who did an 11 year extensive analysis of every one of the 200 Beatles songs,analyzes Ask Me Why and explains that it’s structurally complex.
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/amw.shtml
Here is Alan’s analysis of Paul McCartney’s 1963 very good song All My Loving and he describes it as having a lot of complex chords and other unusual musical things.Many people have pointed out on music and Beatles fan site forums that John Lennon played great,difficult fast rhythm guitar triplets,well it turns out John( and George and Paul on bass) was playing a whole bunch of complex chords this fast and great!
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/aml.shtml
This is just about the fussiest, most complicated form we’ve yet seen. You can sort of parse it as a mutant version of the two-bridge model, but what is most notable … Here is Alan’s whole Beatles song analysis series
Alan W. Pollack’s Notes on … Series – ICCE WWW Info …
In 1989 the American musicologist Alan W. Pollack started to analyze the songs of the Beatles. He published his first results on internet. In 1991 — after he had finished the work on 28 songs — he bravely decided to do the whole lot of them.
http://www.icce.rug.nl
In 1989 the American musicologist Alan W. Pollack started to analyze the songs of the Beatles. He published his first results on internet. In 1991 — after he had …
Here is an interview with University of Pennsylvania graduate (1 op the top universities in the US) musicologist Alan Pollack who did an 11 year study of all 200 Beatles songs, here he says The Beatles specifically John and Paul wrote what he calls chord anomalies which are very clever complex unusual
including in their early music, and he said about these chord anomalies in their early music that people tend to underrate the first half of their catalog in this respect.
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/interview.shtml
Alan W. Pollack’s Notes on … Series – ICCE WWW Info …
In 1989 the American musicologist Alan W. Pollack started to analyze the songs of the Beatles. He published his first results on internet. In 1991 — after he had finished the work on 28 songs — he bravely decided to do the whole lot of them.
This very good London Times review of the remastered The Beatles Live at The Hollywood Bowl album says it’s remarkable that The Beatles played as well as they did given that they couldn’t hear a thing beyond the screaming of 17,500 teenage girls.They should have also mentioned the poor very primitive and limited sound systems of the time and no feedback monitors so they also couldn’t hear themselves singing and playing but the amazingly sang and played great and in sync with each other anyway.
It says that they were a lean and vibrant rock n roll band honed to perfection after toughing it out with five sets a night in rough Hamburg nightclubs.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pop-the-beatles-live-at-the-hollywood-bowl-f9pxrkmzg
Pop: The Beatles: Live at the Hollywood Bowl Times2 …
http://www.thetimes.co.uk
★★★★★Ron Howard’s superb new Beatles documentary, Eight Days a Week, shows not just how exciting but also how overwhelming the Fab Four’s brief life as …
Giles Martin,George Martin’s son who recently remastered The Beatles 1964 and 1965 Live At The Hollywood Bowl concerts rightfully says on All Songs Considered when people ask him if The Beatles were a good live band,he says they were a great live band and he mention the very limited,primitive sound systems they had back then,and says how great The Beatles played live in the studio on their first 3 or 4 albums,and that they all played their instruments very good.
He obviously means they played these first several albums live because they didn’t even have any overdubbing until 1965 so they had to play and record those albums live.And their first albums before the great A Hard Day’s Night album were recorded on only 2 track tape,they had 4 track by A Hard Day’s Night and only 8 track for The White album,Let It Be and Abbey Road.
By the time they recorded and played live their first album Please please Me recorded in only in one day in February 1963,they had 1000’s of hours of live playing experience playing 8 hours a night from 1960-1962 in the sleazy strip clubs in Hamburg Germany and had to take speed pills to stay awake to do it,and John Lennon said every song was 20 minutes long,and had 20 minute solos in it. Then they played successfully live in the Liverpool Cavern Club for years before they made the Please Please Me album.
http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2016/08/25/491201322/all-songs-1-the-beatles-are-live-and-sounding-better-than-ever
All Songs +1: The Beatles Are Live And Sounding Better Than Ever
The Beatles were a great live band, but only three of their shows were ever professionally recorded. Now new technology takes those shows from The Hollywood Bowl and makes them sound better than ever.
In this 2016 BBc interview Larry Kane who interviewed The Beatles from 1964-1966 and says he was at 46 Beatles concerts and there wasn’t a bad one among them.
He also said that he thinks Ron Howard’s documentary (Eight Days A Week) is a reminder how good The Beatles were as musicians,that modern musicians will look at the puny sound equipment they had and will be amazed and that some concerts had the music going out on the stadiums public address systems.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37355216
Larry Kane: The reluctant Beatles fan – BBC News
Eight Days A Week – Ron Howard’s new documentary about the Beatles’ touring days in the 1960s – has contributions from familiar faces such as Sir Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr. Less expected is …
I also met two people and know a third one who saw The Beatles in concert,one woman and one man who were my high school teachers who saw them in 1966,and the other my second cousin who saw them at the Baltimore Coliseum when she was 16 in 1964,she became a psychologist.They all told me that they were close enough to them to see and hear the The Beatles and that they were great.